
Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 28 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1272



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: 
Re: triste dia
Re: triste dia
sorry
Re: triste dia
Re: sorry
Re: triste dia
Re: triste dia
Re: triste dia
Re: triste dia
re: triste dia
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:35:47 -0500
Re: (No Subject)
RE: triste dia
Re: Re : Antimatter drives
Re: BD Crush Depth
Re: TML Members as resources
RE: antimatter drives
Re: TML Members as resources
Re: TML Members as resources
Re: antimatter drives
Re: TML Members as resources
[TCS] Questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:43:08 -0500 ()
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: 

>No, increased the required threshold will DECREASE the distance, but it
>will increase the size of object required.

Er, uhm, ehh... heh heh. Oops. I meant decerease, of course. From 0.01 to
0.0001 or some such. Extra digits bad. Fire bad. Bread good.

Again, thanks to everyone for the comments. These are incredibly useful to me.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:46:15 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: triste dia

for crying out loud.  if your gonna spam us at least do it in english

jesus wrote:

> NOCTURNO

- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:51:29 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: triste dia

From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>


>for crying out loud.  if your gonna spam us at least do it in english


Actually, it's refreshing to receive some spam from another cultural base.
It would be nice if Jesus had provided a translation though. ;)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:51:51 +0200
From: "jesus" <jesus@kobo.es>
Subject: sorry

Sorry,
I beg your pardon, I was sending a poem of Rafael Alberti (spanish poet who
has died) and accidentally i has sent to the list, Im very embarrased,
sorry for the waste of bandwidth.

- -Jesus

P.S.: I was using MS Outlook Express

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:56:28 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: triste dia

- --------------CF9BF150EF7A0B52D119FF47
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I just went to a translation page and ran it.  I think it's supposed to be a
poem.  From the name of the sender I thought maybe it was some conservative
xtian harassing us.

Translation seems to be.....

                                  NOCTURNAL.
                   When so much themselves suffers without
            dream and by the blood themselves listens that travels
          only the rage, that in the tutanos trembles vigilant the
            hatred and in the marrow burns continuous the revenge,
                  the words then do not serve, are words. .

                              Bullets, Bullets.

             Manifestoes, articles, comments, speecies, humaredas
             lost, fogs stamped, What should pain of papers that
           sweep the wind, what sadness of ink that of erasing the
                                   water! .

                              Bullets, Bullets.

                       Now I suffer the poor thing, it
           mezquino, the sad thing, the unfortunate thing and dead
             person that has a throat when since the abyss of its
          language wanted to shout what is not able for impossible,
                               and silences. .

                              Bullets, Bullets.

               I sit down this injured night of death the words

Chris Seamans wrote:

> From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
>
> >for crying out loud.  if your gonna spam us at least do it in english
>
> Actually, it's refreshing to receive some spam from another cultural base.
> It would be nice if Jesus had provided a translation though. ;)

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer


- --------------CF9BF150EF7A0B52D119FF47
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
I just went to a translation page and ran it.&nbsp; I think it's supposed
to be a poem.&nbsp; From the name of the sender I thought maybe it was
some conservative xtian harassing us.
<p>Translation seems to be.....
<center>
<p>NOCTURNAL.
<br>When so much themselves suffers without
<br>dream and by the blood themselves listens that travels
<br>only the rage, that in the tu&eacute;tanos trembles vigilant the
<br>hatred and in the marrow burns continuous the revenge,
<br>the words then do not serve, are words. .
<p>Bullets, Bullets.
<p>Manifestoes, articles, comments, speecies, humaredas
<br>lost, fogs stamped, &iexcl;What should pain of papers that
<br>sweep the wind, what sadness of ink that of erasing the
<br>water! .
<p>Bullets, Bullets.
<p>Now I suffer the poor thing, it
<br>mezquino, the sad thing, the unfortunate thing and dead
<br>person that has a throat when since the abyss of its
<br>language wanted to shout what is not able for impossible,
<br>and silences. .
<p>Bullets, Bullets.
<p>I sit down this injured night of death the words</center>

<p>Chris Seamans wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>From: Shimmergloom &lt;shimmer@mhtc.net>
<p>>for crying out loud.&nbsp; if your gonna spam us at least do it in
english
<p>Actually, it's refreshing to receive some spam from another cultural
base.
<br>It would be nice if Jesus had provided a translation though. ;)</blockquote>

<p>--
<br>----------------------------------------------
<br>he he he he he he he he he he he he
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Shimmer
<br>&nbsp;</html>

- --------------CF9BF150EF7A0B52D119FF47--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:58:45 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: sorry

That's ok.  I misunderstood what it was until I had it translated.  I thought
we were harassed by a xtian.  A combination of your tagline and name.  Nice
poem.

jesus wrote:

> Sorry,
> I beg your pardon, I was sending a poem of Rafael Alberti (spanish poet who
> has died) and accidentally i has sent to the list, Im very embarrased,
> sorry for the waste of bandwidth.
>
> -Jesus
>
> P.S.: I was using MS Outlook Express

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:05:35 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: triste dia

I ran it through Babelfish several times...after a few cycles the
refrain

'Balas, Balas'

turned into 

'Bullets of Paper, Bullets of Rifles'

ObTrav: Hmmm...good description of Imperial tyranny...

Dunno how it happened, beause I can _never_ reliably reproduce
Babelfishisms, I may have accidentally told it to translate German (as
English) into French or something...stuff gets weird when you do that...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:10:46 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: triste dia

Well Jesus.  Is it just bullets or is it Bullets of Paper, Bullets of
Rifles?

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> I ran it through Babelfish several times...after a few cycles the
> refrain
>
> 'Balas, Balas'
>
> turned into
>
> 'Bullets of Paper, Bullets of Rifles'
>
> ObTrav: Hmmm...good description of Imperial tyranny...
>
> Dunno how it happened, beause I can _never_ reliably reproduce
> Babelfishisms, I may have accidentally told it to translate German (as
> English) into French or something...stuff gets weird when you do that...
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:11:41 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: triste dia

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: triste dia


>I ran it through Babelfish several times...after a few cycles the
>refrain
>
>'Balas, Balas'
>
>turned into
>
>'Bullets of Paper, Bullets of Rifles'
>
>ObTrav: Hmmm...good description of Imperial tyranny...
>
>Dunno how it happened, beause I can _never_ reliably reproduce
>Babelfishisms, I may have accidentally told it to translate German (as
>English) into French or something...stuff gets weird when you do that...


I translated from Spanish to English and back to Spanish and the refrain
turned into "Black Points, Black Points."

Strange.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:16:23 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: triste dia

Well, at least we got the gist of it figured out... :)

Chris Seamans wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
> Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 9:07 PM
> Subject: Re: triste dia
>
> >I ran it through Babelfish several times...after a few cycles the
> >refrain
> >
> >'Balas, Balas'
> >
> >turned into
> >
> >'Bullets of Paper, Bullets of Rifles'
> >
> >ObTrav: Hmmm...good description of Imperial tyranny...
> >
> >Dunno how it happened, beause I can _never_ reliably reproduce
> >Babelfishisms, I may have accidentally told it to translate German (as
> >English) into French or something...stuff gets weird when you do that...
>
> I translated from Spanish to English and back to Spanish and the refrain
> turned into "Black Points, Black Points."
>
> Strange.

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:15:04 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: re: triste dia

The latest babelfishsm: (with oddly travelleresque references)

Perhaps a lament about a world suffering from mercenary
invasions...'Spheres of the gun, spheres of the gun' has GOT to be a
Happy Fun Ball ;-)

NOCTURNAL. 

Therefore therefore a lot without dream and 

from the spirit of the audience that only the fury churns the travels,

those not to be useful in the despabiladohass of the marks and the mark, 

than burns the vendetta without interruption then has happened,

the words, is words. 

Spheres of the gun, spheres of the gun.

The proclamations, article, observations, speech, humaredas have
destroyed, embrume print,

than the Marches they suffer from the papers, that they must sweep the
wind, 

that red sadness for the water removal!

Spheres of the gun, spheres of the gun 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:35:47 -0500
From: "Jim Mccall" <jpmccall@windsong.net>
Subject: Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:35:47 -0500

shadow writes:
<The specific impulse (Isp) is determined *strictly* by the exhaust
<velocity ve).

<Ve/(9.8 m/s^2)=Isp

Wouldn't a more accurate formula be

sqr(1-(v/c)^2)/9.8 m/s^2=Isp ?

<*Thrust* is determined by the *rate* at which you use fuel, and by the
<Isp or Ve.

<So even with a near C exhaust velocity, the *thrust* depends on *how
<much* exhaust per second you produce. Note that producing an exhaust of
<"luxons" (particles that always travel at c, such as photons) is only
<half as efficient as producing "normal" particles particles.

I don't know anything about this but I would like to. Why are luxons only
half
as efficient as normal particles?

<One way of looking at this is that in a "normal rocket" most of the
<particles bounce off the nozzle before being re-directed out the
<nozzle. This gives *twice* the impulse per particle as having them
<merely stream out the back of the vessel.

I don't think this is right. The impulse is determined by the KE of the
exaust
KE= 1/2*m0*v^2 or at near c KE= (m-m0)c^2. m0=rest mass. m=appearant
mass=m0/sqr(1-(v/c)^2)

<Compare the impulse you get by throwing a ball off the end of the
<typical physics experiment "frictionless sled" with what you get from
<having the same ball at the same speed *relative to the sled* approach
<the sled and bounce off the back.

But in the hypothetical drive being discussed here the reaction mass isn't
coming
from outside the the ship. It has velocity of 0 relitive to the ship and
ends up with a velocity
of whatever(somewhere near c). The reaction masses exit velocity is what
determins the
force applied to the ship. Bouncing has nothing to do with it.

Jim Mccall (aka Kritias)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:41:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: (No Subject)

Jim Mccall writes:
> shadow writes:
> <The specific impulse (Isp) is determined *strictly* by the exhaust
> <velocity ve).
> 
> <Ve/(9.8 m/s^2)=Isp
> 
> Wouldn't a more accurate formula be
> 
> sqr(1-(v/c)^2)/9.8 m/s^2=Isp ?

Oh, relativistic formulae?  In fact, the answer here is 'no', unless for some reason you want to count the specific impulse without including energy.

> <So even with a near C exhaust velocity, the *thrust* depends on *how
> <much* exhaust per second you produce. Note that producing an exhaust of
> <"luxons" (particles that always travel at c, such as photons) is only
> <half as efficient as producing "normal" particles particles.

That's a 'huh?'.  Momentum = mass * velocity.  Now, the power output for a photon drive is twice what you'd expect from extrapolating from non-relativistic thrusters (in general, power output = 0.5 * Ve * thrust; the power output for a conversion thruster is 1.0 * Ve * thrust) but that's just a relativistic effect.

Specific impulse = Ve/9.8.  It doesn't matter what your exhaust material is.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:47:24 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: triste dia

jesus writes:
>Cuando tanto se sufre sin sue=F1o y por la sangre=20
>se escucha que transita solamente la rabia,=20
>que en los tu=E9tanos tiembla despabilado el odio=20
>y en las m=E9dulas arde continua la venganza,=20
>las palabras entonces no sirven, son palabras.=20
<snipped>

	Eh?

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:49:02 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Re : Antimatter drives

At 12:14 PM 10/28/99 +1000, you wrote:
>You may be able to get a pdf copy of NASA Technical Memo #107030
from
>the NASA website. This is a little equation heavy, but is chock full
of
>useful data about fission, fusion and antimatter drives.

	If you can't find it, let me know ... I have it sitting on my HD.

- -- Every Communist must grasp the truth: 'Political power
   grows out of the barrel of a gun.'
   --Mao Zedong

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:49:01 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: BD Crush Depth

At 10:39 PM 10/27/99 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> At 06:36 PM 10/26/99 PST, you wrote:
>>>In mail you write:
>>>
>>>> I have been trying to figure the frame strength required for
ships
>>>> given a G rating. I presume there is some way of converting
crush
>>>> depth force to equate to an acceleration force. One atmosphere =
1
>> kg
>>>> per square cm.
>>>
>>>That's 1 kg*f* per square cm. Or 9.8 newtons.
>>
>>         Huh? 1 atm=101.3 kPa=101.3 kN/m^2=1.013 N/cm^2
>
>Nope. For one thing, the conversion factor from m^2 to cm^2 is
10,000,
>not 100.

	Whoops ... that's what comes from letting me try to do a calculation
in my head after an evening enjoying local microbrew products!

	Besides, I was roleplaying a Lockmart engineer!

- -- Every Communist must grasp the truth: 'Political power
   grows out of the barrel of a gun.'
   --Mao Zedong

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:38:19 -0400
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

This is my best guess:

Archery - 0
Swimming - 1
Climbing - 0
Survival - 0
Song - (-1)
Physics - 0
Robotics - 1
Drinking - 1


Computer - 3
Electronics - 2
JOT - 1
Mechanical - 1
Blade Combat (Epee) - 0
Gun Combat
    Revolver - 1
    Rifle - 1
    Shotgun - 1
Aircraft Propeller - 0
Wheeled Vehicle - 2
Watercraft 
    Small Craft - 1



> We're all winging it.  I figure:
> level 0: basic familiarity (basic first aid)
> level 1: above minimum skill (first reponder)
> level 2: experienced (EMT)
> level 3: more experienced (doctor)
> level 4: expert (specialist)
> level 5: top of the field

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:03:33 -0500
From: "Jim Mccall" <jpmccall@windsong.net>
Subject: RE: antimatter drives

Some thoughts on my last post:
I think I forgot to include a subject line. sorry bout that.
As far as getting my facts straight before questioning someone else's. I
think
I could've done better. After posting that last message I continued to look
in my physics
book (Principles of Physics by F. Beuche 3rd ed. from physics 101) for more
on the subject.
It says force= mass * acceleration. But I can't find anything about
reletivistc effects being applied
to that. Still, it seems that they should somehow. Shouldn't the force
applied to a
ship be related to the change in kinetic energy (relative to the ship) of
its reaction mass?
Anyway I can't find anything to back up this assumption and I would
appeciate being
set straight in this.

Jim Mccall (aka Kritias)
IMTU tc ?tm ?tn ?t4 ?tg ?tt to++ ru- ge++ !3i c++ jt(+) au+ st? ls--
pi(+(@)) ta-- he++  so++

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:09:36 +0100
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

>> Good grief.  Is there any subject concerning which someone on this list
>> *doesn't* possess erudite knowledge?

> of  the life
>cycle of the tuatara or cave weta, or similar species ?

>From Earths library data (Encarta) under New Zealand there is a picture of the
Tuatara lizard/reptile thingy. From the rest of the description I would guess at
the cave weta being a bat. But no life cycle details.

Incomplete data of this form should not be tolerated, please have the scout crew
responsible reassigned to the Zhodani border.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:15:04 -0400
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

Cave Weta:  A big ugly bug that looks like a cross between a potato bug
and a spider.  YUCK!

Tuatara:  Appears to be a warm blooded iguana looking reptile.


> I have to admit ignorance of the cave weta, but the tuatara is
> a bit of a biological oddity, and I do know what it is.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:22:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: antimatter drives

Jim Mccall writes:
> on the subject.
> It says force= mass * acceleration. But I can't find anything about
> reletivistc effects being applied
> to that. Still, it seems that they should somehow. Shouldn't the force
> applied to a
> ship be related to the change in kinetic energy (relative to the ship) of
> its reaction mass?

It is.  That determines the exhaust velocity, and there is a relativistic effect (the power output of a photon drive is twice what you'd expect from its exhaust velocity and classical mechanics)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:21:46 -0400
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

Oh, yeah here are some visual aids:

>Cave Weta:  A big ugly bug that looks like a cross between a potato bug
>and a spider.  YUCK!


    http://svr-www.eng.cam.ac.uk/~jccc/gallery/gen_aspects/weta.html


>Tuatara:  Appears to be a warm blooded iguana looking reptile.

    
    http://www.mtbruce.doc.govt.nz/tuatara.htm

Enjoy!  Aren't the TML and Web wonderful?  Before ten minutes ago, I had
no idea what either of these creatures were.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:18:29 +0100
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk>
Subject: [TCS] Questions

One of the players had a few questions re: the rules and some of the Items
on the Web site
( www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/tcs.htm ) I'm forwarding an edited reply to you
all, as some of this may answer any nagging thoughts of your own.  I'll be
posting further updated rules / background on my site over the weekend, and
I'll keep you posted when additions are made.  I'm Also CCing this to TML,
for the benefit of any lurkers, and to receive feedback on any rulings I've
made.  Would the players please reply privately rather than to the list,
unless the comment is of a general nature of course <g>

>Nice web site.  Let's see, I had a couple of questions...

Thanks! It's just a quick and dirty one at present, as I don't have time to
do really fancy stuff at the moment <g>

> B Bases
> N Naval Base
> Ag Agricultural
> Ni Nonindustrial
> In Industrial
> Wa Waterworld
> Hi ?

High Population

> De ?

Desert

> Lo ?

Low Population

> Ri Rich
> As ?

Asteroid Belt

> Na Nonagricultural
> Po Poor
> Ic ?

Ice Capped (Vacuum or Trace atmosphere & 1+ Hydrographics)

> Va ?

Vacuum

> Z ?

Zone (Travel zone classification)

> R ?

Red Zone

> PBG ?

Population Multiplier, Belts, Gas Giants.

Base pop from UPP is multiplied by Pop Multiplier to find actual population.
ie Pop 9 from UPP = 1 Billion population. If Pop Multiplier is 5 then actual
population is 5 Billion.

Belts indicates the number of non-'mainworld' planetoid belts present in the
system.

Gas Giants is the number of Gas Giants (of any size) present in the system.


> Al or AI ?

Allegiance

> Budget annual naval budget

Budget = Starting Budget (10*Peacetime Annual Budget)
BTW, this is based on Cr100 per person, not Cr500. The other Cr400 goes on
Infrastructure/ Bases/ Training/ Rations/ Admirals Offices etc etc. Only
leaving Cr100 for construction/ maintenance

>Will we need to take into account such things as having agricultural worlds
>to feed airless rockballs?

Hmmm, I was considering this myself.  I'll look at the figures (I may use
GT: Far Trader to generate trade values to see if it's feasible), but there
will probably Hydroponic produce to supplement imports.

>"3. Battles: All battles are fought to a conclusion. Refuelling from gas
>giants may take place during battle. Ships may escape from battle by jump
>or manoeuvre."
>
> If an SDB "breaks off" from battle successfully, is it then
> safe until the following week?

Yes, once a vessel 'escapes' battle it is safe until the next week, but
similarly it cannot rejoin the battle later. It can return to the Inner
System once the battle has been concluded, if it so desires and if no enemy
fleets are present. See "The Outer System" section

>"4. Changes of Control: ... Enemy worlds will surrender to a fleet."
>
> Does this mean that a type S scout can take control of a
> pop 9 world?

No, see the "Surrender" section. You need at least 100 factors of weaponry
in the system, counting all batteries (A=10 etc), and all enemy ships must
be incapacitated or have disengaged.

>Will ships require cargo space for extended operations?  If so, how much?
>How much cargo space is required to reload missile launchers?  Bays?

>Are nuclear and/or HE missiles available at all starports?

HE at C+, Nuclear at Naval Bases.

>Will Marines in low berths suffer casualties on revival?

No. This is just to streamline the game, if we keep track of everything
it'll bog down in bookkeeping (as if it won't anyway <g>)

>Are there DMs for boarding parties based on TL (are all Marines at the same
>TL, or does it depend on the shipyard?  Can Marines get "upgraded" at
>another world?).

Hmmm.  Good point.  DM +/- 1 per difference in TL.  TL of troops = TL of
ship they are from.  Upgrading Ship TL upgrades troops TL.  Ships may only
carry troops if quarters / berths allocated at design time.  Add cost of
troop armour, weapons, and vehicles to cost of ship. People are *free*,
equipment isn't...

>How many Marines does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

You don't screw with Marines <g>

>:)
>Ian

Matt

Matthew Bond
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1272
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